Local: Macedonia Change


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This is another thread in response to all of our jealous neighbors that continually claim that modern Greeks have nothing to do with their Byzantine and ancient ancestors.

Feel free to post anything that relates to our living, breathing, and continuous language, as well as all of our traditions that span millenia;
our common customs, festivals, dances, religion, and superstitions.

Just how 'Greek' was the Byzantine Empire?

Take a look at the ethnic origin of all its emperors and I'll let you all be the judge

Constantinian dynasty (306-363)
Constantine I (306-337) - ILLYRIAN, born in Nish, Serbia.
Constantine II (337-361) - ILLYRIAN, son of Constantine I, born in Sremska Mitrovica, Serbia.
Julian (361-363) - ILLYRIAN, son of Constantine I's Brother.
Non-dynastic (363-364)
Jovian (363-364) - ILLYRIAN, born in Belgrade, Serbia.
Valentinian-Theodosian dynasty (364-377)
Valentinian I (364-375) - ILLYRIAN, Born in Vinkovci, Croatia.
Valens (375-378) - ILLYRIAN, Brother of Valentinian I, born in Vinkovci, Croatia.
Gratian (378-379) - ILLYRIAN, born in Sremska Mitrovica, Serbia.
Theodosius I (379-395) - SPANISH, born in Cauca, Spain.
Arcadius (395-408) - SPANISH, son of Theodosius I.
Theodosius II (408-450) - SPANISH, son of Arcadius.
Pulcheria (450-453) - SPANISH, daughter of Arcadius.
Marcian (450-457) - THRACIAN, born in Thrace, exact village or town unknown.
Leonid dynasty (457-518)
Leo I (457-474) - THRACIAN, born in Thrace, exact village or town unknown.
Leo II (474-474) - THRACIAN, KURDISH, Son of Zeno and grandson of Leo I.
Zeno (474-475) - KURDISH, born in Isauria, Turkey.
Basiliscus (475-476) - ILLYRIAN, Born in the northern Balkans, exact village or town unknown.
Zeno (476-491) - KURDISH, restored as emperor.
Anastasius I (491-518) - ILLYRIAN, born in Durres, Albania.
Justinian dynasty (518-602)
Justin I (518-527) - ILLYRIAN, born in Nish, Serbia. (his real name was Istok).
Justinian I (527-565) - MACEDONIAN, born in Gradiste, Republic of Macedonia.
Justin II (565-578) - MACEDONIAN, nephew of Justinian I.
Tiberius II Constantine (578-582) - THRACIAN, born in Thrace, exact village or town unknown.
Maurice (582-602) - ARMENIAN, born in Arabissus, Turkey.
Non-dynastic (602-610)
Phocas (602-610) - THRACIAN, born in Thrace, exact village or town unknown.
Heraclian dynasty (610-711)
Heraclius (610–641) - ARMENIAN, born in Cappodocia, Turkey.
Constantine III (641-641) - ARMENIAN, son of Heraclius, born in Lazica, Republic of Georgia.
Heraklonas (641-641) - ARMENIAN, son of Heraclius, born in Lazica, Republic of Georgia.
Constans II (641–668) - ARMENIAN, son of Constatine III.
Mezezius (668–669) - ARMENIAN, born in Malazgirt, Turkey.
Constantine IV (668–685) - ARMENIAN, son of Constans II.
Justinian II (685–695) - ARMENIAN, son of Constatine IV.
Leontios (695–698) - KURDISH, born in Isauria, Turkey.
Tiberios III (698–705) - GERMAN, born in Germany, exact village or town unknown.
Justinian II (705–711) - ARMENIAN, restored.
Non-dynastic (711-717)
Philippikos Bardanes (711–713) - ARMENIAN, born in Armenia, exact village or town unknown.
Anastasios II (713–715) - UNKNOWN, possibly Armenian.
Theodosios III (715–717) - GERMAN, son of Tiberios III.
Isaurian dynasty (717-802)
Leo III (717–741) - KURDISH, born in Maras, Turkey.
Constantine V Kopronymos (741-741) - KURDISH, son of Leo III.
Artabasdus (741–743) - ARMENIAN, born in Armenia, exact village or town unknown.
Constantine V Kopronymos (743–775) - KURDISH, restored as emperor.
Leo IV (775–780) - KURDISH/KHAZAR son of Constantine V and a Khazar mother.
Constantine VI (780–797) - KURDISH/KHAZAR, son of Leo IV.
Irene (797–802) - GREEK, born in Athens and ironically deposed and exiled to Lesbos

Laskarid dynasty - Empire of Nicaea (1204-1261)
Constantine Laskaris (1204-1204) - UNKNOWN.
Theodore I Laskaris (1174–1222) - UNKNOWN.
John III Doukas Vatatzes (1222–1254) - ARMENIAN, cousin of Isaac II Angelos.
Theodore II Doukas Laskaris (1254–1258) - UNKNOWN.
John IV Doukas Laskaris (1258–1261) - UNKNOWN.
Palaiologan Dynasty (1259-1453)
Michael VIII Palaiologos (1259–1282) - ARMENIAN, descended from both the Armenian Ducas and Komnenos families.
Andronikos II Palaiologos the Elder (1282–1328) - ARMENIAN, son of Michael VIII Palaiologos.
Andronikos III Palaiologos the Younger (1328–1341) - ARMENIAN , son of and Michael IX Palaiologos and princess Rita of Armenia.
John V Palaiologos (1341–1347) - ARMENIAN, son of Andronikos III Palaiologos the Younger.
John VI Kantakouzenos (1347–1354) - GREEK, born in Morea.
John V Palaiologos (1354–1376) - ARMENIAN, restored as emperor.
Andronikos IV Palaiologos (1376–1379) - ARMENIAN, son of John V Palaiologos.
John VII Palaiologos (1376-1379) - ARMENIAN, son of Andronikos IV Palaiologos.
John V Palaiologos (1379–1390) - ARMENIAN, restored as emperor.
John VII Palaiologos (1390-1390) - ARMENIAN, son of Andronikos IV Palaiologos.
John V Palaiologos (1390–1391) - ARMENIAN, son of Andronikos III Palaiologos.
Manuel II Palaiologos (1391–1425) - ARMENIAN, son of John V Palaiologos.
John VII Palaiologos (1399–1402) - ARMENIAN, restored as emperor.
John VIII Palaiologos (1425–1448) - ARMENIAN, son of Manuel II Palaiologos.
Constantine XI Palaiologos Dragases (1449–1453) - ARMENIAN, son of Manuel II Palaiologos.

Go here:

then here:

and then here:

also try this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empero ...

or maybe wiki is not for you - so go here:
http://www.btinternet.com/~allan_raymond/Gree ...

Stop spamming peasant!


Antiquity / Origin of Dance








King Otto was imposed on the Greeks by the great powers of the time as a protectorate.

Says so in the link you provided. Again, nothing of substance!

Theodore I Laskaris:

"Theodore Laskaris was born of a noble but not particularly renowned Byzantine Greek family of Constantinople."

Again from your link! Are you trying to be stupid or just are?

Komnenos dynasty:

"The Komnenos or Comnenus was a Byzantine Greek noble family and an important ruling Dynasty of the Byzantine Empire, as they are widely considered to have reversed the decline of the Byzantine Empire for over a century, from c.1081 to c.1185."

Again states from Byzantine Greek family!

Your last link doesnt even work! LOLSKI!!!!



GEOROX wrote:
Stop spamming peasant!

who looks and acts like a peasant..


The most valiant are sometimes the most unfortunate. Thus there are triumphant defeats that rival victories. Nor did those four sister victories, the fairest that the sun ever set eyes on—Salamis, Plataea, Mycale, and Sicily—ever dare match all their combined glory against the glory of the annihilation of King Leonidas and his men at the pass of Thermopylae.
In terms of politico-cultural constructions of world history, the ancient Greeks’ unlikely victory over the numerically superior invading Persian forces between 490 and 479 BCE has held a privileged position. Throughout the centuries, Western writers and artists have repeatedly represented this military conflict as a triumph of Western ideals of freedom and self-determination over slavish submission to repressive forces of oriental despotism. It is true that the Great King of Persia styled himself as a god who ruled over his subjects as slaves and that the Greek city-states practiced participatory self-government to some degree (women, resident aliens, and slaves of course excluded). But thinkers, both ancient and modern, have taken the distinction to extremes.
Indeed, ancient Greek intellectual and cultural responses to these events gave birth to the idea of a great and impenetrable divide between inferior East and superior West. Eight years after the Athenian victory over the Persian king Xerxes’ fleet in the naval battle at Salamis in 480 BCE, the celebrated Athenian playwright Aeschylus produced his Persians at the festival of the City Dionysia in Athens. The monumental historical experience of the Persian wars allowed Aeschylus to break with established conventions in Greek dramaturgy, whose subject matter had for the most part been restricted to Greek mythological topics, in order to portray the historical event at Salamis on the tragic stage. By metonymy, the Persians came to represent the quintessential Eastern ‘barbarian’, and in a memorable choral passage Aeschylus wrote:
‘No longer will they that dwell throughout the length and breadth of Asia abide under the Persian yoke, nor will they pay further tribute through the master’s crushing necessity, nor will they fall headlong on the ground to revere him, since the kingly power has utterly perished.’ (Persians, lines 585-90)

A Byzantine fresco showing a type of Byzantine dance, highlighting the continuity of Greek dancing.


HELL -ASS and BUL- GUSS wrote:
<quoted text>
who looks and acts like a peasant..

I realize that you can't afford to go to a museum on your toilet scrubbing salary, so here's the next best thing:


Free of charge PEASANT!



"The roots of kalamatianos can be found in antiquity. Homer, in the Iliad, describes three performances made around the spear of Achilles that depict a dance in an open circle. The ancient Spartans had a dance called ormos, which was a syrto style dance described in detail by Xenophon where a woman led a male into dance using a handkerchief."

On a side note.......

Milo Mou Kokkino a traditional kalamatiano song from Western Macedonia.


Milo mu kokkino, roido vameno,
yiati me maranes, to pikrameno.

Paeno kerhome, ma den se vrisko
vrisko tin porta su mandalomeni.

Ta parathiroudia su fengovolune
rotao tin porta su, pu pai i kira su

Kiram den ine edo, paise stin vrisi
Paise na vri nero ke na yemisi.

Katerina Papadopoulou - Milo mou kokkino (live, 2004)



HELL -ASS and BUL- GUSS wrote:
Just how 'Greek' was the Byzantine Empire?

Your own McSlavic church will answer that question for us... LMFAO!!!





The Tsakonikos or Tsakonikos khoros ("Tsakonian dance") is a dance performed in the Peloponnese in Greece. It comes from the region, chiefly in Arcadia, known asTsakonia. It is danced in many towns villages there with little variation to the steps.

The dance is performed to a a 5/4 (3+2) rhythm in an open circle which slowly winds in upon itself, forming a snail-shaped design. This labyrinthine formation is, according to legend, linked to the Crane dance of Theseus in Greek mythology, who slew the Minotaur in the Labyrinth of King Minos. It has also been linked to the slaying by Apollo of the Python at Delphi.

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