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The Templeton Foundation, a christian organization, in 2006, set out to prove that prayer works, with a massive study that ended up costing over 2.4 million dollars.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/vie...
http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/prayer.html#S...

1,802 patients at 6 different hospitals were organized into the study. They'd all received heart bypass surgery so that there would be as much similarity as possible.

Patients were organized into three groups:
1) Patients who weren't prayed for and were told they might or might not be, but were.
2) Patients who were prayed for, and were told they might or might not be, but weren't.
3) Patients who were prayed for, and knew it.

It was a double-blind study, as real science demands. The patients didn't know who the prayers were, or where they were, or in most cases even that they were being prayed for.

On the other side were 3 churches in 3 different states that didn't know each other. They were given the first name and last initial and the condition of the patient they were to pray for.

Prayer started the night before surgery, and continued for 14 days thereafter. As an extra control, congregation members were given the instruction to include the phrase "a successful surgery with no complications" in their prayers.

Here are the results:
http://www.ahjonline.com/article/PIIS00028703...

Not only did the prayer have NO POSITIVE EFFECT AT ALL, it actually had a negative effect on the patients who knew for certain they were being prayed for. The conclusion of the researchers was a psychosomatic effect due to 'performance anxiety'. They made themselves sicker from the pressure of the experiment.

Where are you, christians!

HA HA HA ha ha, they set out to measure GOD? Make GOD as a part of an equation in a science experiment?? HA HA HA HA!! They tried to control GOD as part of a test!! HO HO HO, and the failure of this Quackery would reinforce your disbelief in GOD?? HEE HEE HEE HA HA, you one funny woman. HA HA HA HA!! ROFLMAO!!

PAZZ wrote:
HA HA HA ha ha, they set out to measure GOD? Make GOD as a part of an equation in a science experiment?? HA HA HA HA!! They tried to control GOD as part of a test!! HO HO HO, and the failure of this Quackery would reinforce your disbelief in GOD?? HEE HEE HEE HA HA, you one funny woman. HA HA HA HA!! ROFLMAO!!


LOL... SO TRUE!!

Who cares? If someone wants to pray, let them. It's not hurting anybody.

I agree. You can't test prayer by conducting an experiment or a survey. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Well, I guess since they did that experiment it must REALLY mean prayer doesn't work. So silly.

PAZZ wrote:
HA HA HA ha ha, they set out to measure GOD? Make GOD as a part of an equation in a science experiment?? HA HA HA HA!! They tried to control GOD as part of a test!! HO HO HO, and the failure of this Quackery would reinforce your disbelief in GOD?? HEE HEE HEE HA HA, you one funny woman. HA HA HA HA!! ROFLMAO!!

So God ignores the sick to make a political point?

Pak31 wrote:
I agree. You can't test prayer by conducting an experiment or a survey.

Looks to me like they did. And it was done by a christian organization, no less.

Writing in Paradise wrote:
The Templeton Foundation, a christian organization, in 2006, set out to prove that prayer works, with a massive study that ended up costing over 2.4 million dollars.
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/vie...
http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/prayer.html#S...
1,802 patients at 6 different hospitals were organized into the study. They'd all received heart bypass surgery so that there would be as much similarity as possible.
Patients were organized into three groups:
1) Patients who weren't prayed for and were told they might or might not be, but were.
2) Patients who were prayed for, and were told they might or might not be, but weren't.
3) Patients who were prayed for, and knew it.
It was a double-blind study, as real science demands. The patients didn't know who the prayers were, or where they were, or in most cases even that they were being prayed for.
On the other side were 3 churches in 3 different states that didn't know each other. They were given the first name and last initial and the condition of the patient they were to pray for.
Prayer started the night before surgery, and continued for 14 days thereafter. As an extra control, congregation members were given the instruction to include the phrase "a successful surgery with no complications" in their prayers.
Here are the results:
http://www.ahjonline.com/article/PIIS00028703...
Not only did the prayer have NO POSITIVE EFFECT AT ALL, it actually had a negative effect on the patients who knew for certain they were being prayed for. The conclusion of the researchers was a psychosomatic effect due to 'performance anxiety'. They made themselves sicker from the pressure of the experiment.
Dont fool yourself there little one... PRAYER DOES WORK... who were the ones praying ??

MamaJohnson86 wrote:
Who cares? If someone wants to pray, let them. It's not hurting anybody.


ROFL obviously it isn't helping either.

WiP, I've read about that study. It's pretty funny, actually. The problem is you can't measure or limit 'prayer', for starters. It's as if you're trying to measure thought - does 'oh god!' count? Or 'pleasepleaseplease'?
I think the study does give insights into the minds of folks who essentially give up & think their praying will heal them so they stop their insulin or exercise or whatever...
The Templeton folks are pretty religious, and it's interesting - they have declined funding for some Creationist's projects, saying they were not scientific enough - this from Christians desperate to conflate their faith with science!

The fallacy is thinking that you can make God jump through hoops. Perhaps the fault lies with the people who were doing the praying, simply because they couldn't ask/pray honestly since they knew why they were praying and it wasn't really for the health of those people, it was to prove/test God.

I want to see a 'prayer' study where there are two amputees. One gets prayed over for six hours a day, the other gets no prayers said. The first one to regrow the missing limb proves which works - prayer or no-prayer.

Writing in Paradise wrote:
<quoted text>
So God ignores the sick to make a political point?

nope ,God just doesn't jump through hoops. for you, me ,or anyone.
he gives you the choice to believe or not to.
to pray or not to pray.
to have faith , or to have none.
to have faith is something, to have none is nothing ,which do you prefer.
it is the act of the of praying and believing that shows proof of faith, and while they may not have lived through the surgery performed by a man ,not god, they surely made it into gods house.
Christians have a belief that god is pro life,in my opinion, that is not true, god is pro god.
god has destroyed everything on this planet in a flood. he killed all the firstborn of Egypt ,to make a point to Moses captors.He destroyed two cities in history, known a Soddam and Gamora,while sparing Lots family,minus his wife who did not follow instructions. these are not the acts of a pro-life stance.
so the fact that prayer didn't help heal is not that enlightening to me.god doesn't interfere, untill he has too in my opinion. he wants us to grow and better ourselves,and that will never happen if he constantly fixes our problems for us.
while i consider myself a christian, other more zealous types will be quick to judge me for what ive said here, and hopefully in gods eyes, im not out of line.

I guess there's no hope of trying to converse with people whose minds are so made up that they're closed, or whose hearts are so hard they think believers pray to a genie in a bottle. When I think of how he stands there and knocks at the door you've bolted and shut so tight you've forgotten it's there, it just makes me sad.

My post wasn't to you Hanover Fist, your didn't show up in my browser until I posted.

Home in Jersey wrote:
My post wasn't to you Hanover Fist, your didn't show up in my browser until I posted.

:) i could tell. and i feel the same.

TERRY LONG wrote:
<quoted text>Dont fool yourself there little one... PRAYER DOES WORK... who were the ones praying ??

6 churches full of people, for 14 days.

pbfa wrote:
WiP, I've read about that study. It's pretty funny, actually. The problem is you can't measure or limit 'prayer', for starters.

Sure you can. They prayed for no complications and then measured the rate at which complications occurred. And golly gee, they found no difference between the control group and the prayer group.

Home in Jersey wrote:
The fallacy is thinking that you can make God jump through hoops.

Isn't that EXACTLY what prayer is in the first place? Thinking you can make God do what you want?
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