Local: Columbus, OH Change
 

Comments

Posts 321 to 340 of 386


Oliver Canterberry wrote:
Where is the outrage when local Blacks are killed by Black on Black violence?
Where are the marches?
Where are the speeches?
Blacks have declined under the baleful "rule" of Obama and they don't even realize it.


Cranberry, we have had this discussion before. In fact there are such things.

However, not every injustice calls for the same type of response. When a killer is not arrested and the local police department loudly proclaims that they are prohibited from charging him under the law, this calls for the attention of those who make and enforce the laws at the highest levels.

When kids are killing their neighbor kids because they see a culture in which might makes right, in which guns are held up as great equalizers (and are easily available) and in which they have few positive roles available to them--from kindergarten upwards, this calls for a different kind of action. This calls for putting the pressure on to improve education, to reform gun laws, to expand opportunities (which includes jobs).

I surmise that you don't really care much to have this discussion, or it might have had an impact prior to this. It would seem that your primary interest is to avoid any such meaningful discussion by attempting to simplify a complex world into those few simple sentences which you offered.

How much do YOU care about black on black (or white on black for that matter) violence? What have YOU done about it lately?

There is nothing at all wrong with blacks. Skin color and genetic patterns don't cause anything.

I think, sometimes, that there is something wrong with African-American youth culture...

Culture > Race.

I've had many "black" employees from overseas and never once had a problem with any of them.

But I've had a handful of native born African-Americans who seemed to have arrived on day one with a bad attitude.

I don't blame them, they are a product of their environment, but it's often self-defeating attitude.

Strel wrote:
There is nothing at all wrong with blacks. Skin color and genetic patterns don't cause anything.
I think, sometimes, that there is something wrong with African-American youth culture...
Culture > Race.
I've had many "black" employees from overseas and never once had a problem with any of them.
But I've had a handful of native born African-Americans who seemed to have arrived on day one with a bad attitude.
I don't blame them, they are a product of their environment, but it's often self-defeating attitude.


Whatcha talkin' bout Willis? I ain't got no 'tude!

FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Cranberry, we have had this discussion before. In fact there are such things.
However, not every injustice calls for the same type of response. When a killer is not arrested and the local police department loudly proclaims that they are prohibited from charging him under the law, this calls for the attention of those who make and enforce the laws at the highest levels.
When kids are killing their neighbor kids because they see a culture in which might makes right, in which guns are held up as great equalizers (and are easily available) and in which they have few positive roles available to them--from kindergarten upwards, this calls for a different kind of action. This calls for putting the pressure on to improve education, to reform gun laws, to expand opportunities (which includes jobs).
I surmise that you don't really care much to have this discussion, or it might have had an impact prior to this. It would seem that your primary interest is to avoid any such meaningful discussion by attempting to simplify a complex world into those few simple sentences which you offered.
How much do YOU care about black on black (or white on black for that matter) violence? What have YOU done about it lately?


Meaningful dialogue is meaningless because you refuse to admit that the two great liberal projects of building massive public housing projects in the 60's/early 70's and busing to ensure racial equality were both abject failures. You had your chance now is the time for simple and direct solutions for the Black Dilemma. Corporal punishment is Biblical and needs to be used in public schools (which will never happen due to liberals such as yourself who are currently trying to tear down beautiful clean Christian Schools like Watterson for having moral standards).

Its a beautiful day outside and I shall not waste anymore time with you. As I have regrettably learned from you over the years, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make Reader drink from the water of truth.

Strel wrote:
There is nothing at all wrong with blacks. Skin color and genetic patterns don't cause anything.
I think, sometimes, that there is something wrong with African-American youth culture...
Culture > Race.
I've had many "black" employees from overseas and never once had a problem with any of them.

You've obviously never met a Somali.

Lil Gee wrote:
<quoted text>
Whatcha talkin' bout Willis? I ain't got no 'tude!


Good for you!

You will enjoy job security.

-Clayton Bigsby wrote:
<quoted text>You've obviously never met a Somali.


Can't say that I have.

I've known many Nigerians, however, and found them to be wonderful people.

Strel wrote:
There is nothing at all wrong with blacks. Skin color and genetic patterns don't cause anything.
I think, sometimes, that there is something wrong with African-American youth culture...
Culture > Race.
I've had many "black" employees from overseas and never once had a problem with any of them.
But I've had a handful of native born African-Americans who seemed to have arrived on day one with a bad attitude.
I don't blame them, they are a product of their environment, but it's often self-defeating attitude.


Strel, I think that one of our great difficulties is that we attempt to see/understand something that we understand as "African-American youth culture" (or variations of the same) in isolation from American culture as a whole.

African-American youth are not driving much of anything within our society as a whole. Their decision-making sphere is quite small--impacting little outside of themselves and their peers.

Some operate on a notion that there is a regular society and then there is an alternate society of blacks. Their reasoning is that blacks MAY be considered candidates for that regular society conditionally predicated on their ability to overcome or to change "their own" society. This is a very limited, and fallacious way of viewing social interaction.

Oliver Canterberry wrote:
<quoted text>
Meaningful dialogue is meaningless because you refuse to admit that the two great liberal projects of building massive public housing projects in the 60's/early 70's and busing to ensure racial equality were both abject failures. You had your chance now is the time for simple and direct solutions for the Black Dilemma. Corporal punishment is Biblical and needs to be used in public schools (which will never happen due to liberals such as yourself who are currently trying to tear down beautiful clean Christian Schools like Watterson for having moral standards).
Its a beautiful day outside and I shall not waste anymore time with you. As I have regrettably learned from you over the years, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make Reader drink from the water of truth.


In fact, I could offer a critical history of low-income housing. Large "projects" that served to ghettoize the poor were largely unsuccessful in resolving issues of poverty (if that was the intent) because they tended to remove those who were poor from such resources as might otherwise be available from the near-poor and middle class. This was one piece of reasoning behind the move to section 8 vouchers, which intended to better integrate the poor into overall society (the other reason was that it enabled private realtors to receive government subsidized rents). One problem has been that section 8 housing has tended, rather than becoming a scattered site reality, to simply re-create the public housing projects in the private sector--and to be viewed as a "problem" and a precursor of neighborhood decline.

School deseg has a good many more variables to it. It is clear that except for a few areas, it did not succeed in ending de facto segregation. In many areas, schools remain as highly segregated, if not more so, as before the court orders. But the segregation was an underlying cause for unequal education--and this remains a problem, in fact as measured by achievement gaps there was a time of improvement in the early 1970s followed by widening gaps.

Now then, please define a problem and a solution that you are willing to wrestle with. You have introduced crime (both victims and criminals), housing/poverty and education. I am not hearing from you any willingness to recommend or get behind any solutions--and your ruminations tend to lead quickly to a sense of global hopelessness.

FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Strel, I think that one of our great difficulties is that we attempt to see/understand something that we understand as "African-American youth culture" (or variations of the same) in isolation from American culture as a whole.
African-American youth are not driving much of anything within our society as a whole. Their decision-making sphere is quite small--impacting little outside of themselves and their peers.
Some operate on a notion that there is a regular society and then there is an alternate society of blacks. Their reasoning is that blacks MAY be considered candidates for that regular society conditionally predicated on their ability to overcome or to change "their own" society. This is a very limited, and fallacious way of viewing social interaction.


I'm not entirely comfortable considering it a "separate culture", and I don't think we should be promoting separatism at all - but that community often self-segregrates to some extent, unfortunately. Lingering racism does little to help.

Not so lingering, I guess, reading the posts by some on this board.

I'm smack in the middle of the Deep South, in a community near 40% black, and I see less racism in my town (and it's Topix board) than I do in the boards from communities in Ohio, Arkansas, Kentucky...

Maybe my part of the South is just done with it.

FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
In fact, I could offer a critical history of low-income housing...


I do legal work in that industry, and you couldn't be more right.

Fortunately, that's not how most of it is done these days. Giant HUD-subsidized tenements are not to be desired.

Now they are very successful in building mixed-income communities that have the look and amenties of luxury middle class apartments, and actually cost a lot less...and help transition people into homeownership a bit better.

Hopefully Congress will keep the Low Income Tax Credit program afloat, because that works far, far better than direct subsidy or loans.

Strel wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not entirely comfortable considering it a "separate culture", and I don't think we should be promoting separatism at all - but that community often self-segregrates to some extent, unfortunately. Lingering racism does little to help.
Not so lingering, I guess, reading the posts by some on this board.
I'm smack in the middle of the Deep South, in a community near 40% black, and I see less racism in my town (and it's Topix board) than I do in the boards from communities in Ohio, Arkansas, Kentucky...
Maybe my part of the South is just done with it.
Your blacks behave better. I've been driving twice a year to PCB for almost 20 years from here and have never had an issue with blacks acting they way they do in the North.

-Clayton Bigsby wrote:
<quoted text>Your blacks behave better. I've been driving twice a year to PCB for almost 20 years from here and have never had an issue with blacks acting they way they do in the North.


Perhaps. Perhaps it is the history down here that makes it so.

I've always felt the South was unfairly maligned in this regard.

Unfortunately some redneck always seems to come along to validate the negative stereotype.

Strel wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps. Perhaps it is the history down here that makes it so.
I've always felt the South was unfairly maligned in this regard.
Unfortunately some redneck always seems to come along to validate the negative stereotype.


Why do people suppose blacks remained in the South for generations?

-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do people suppose blacks remained in the South for generations?


My family owned a sizeable chunk of land near Spartanburg, SC and in Augusta, GA prior to the Civil War, and we still have the plantation records from that time. They owned dozens of slaves.

It looks like about half elected to stay either in the area after the War, mostly the older ones and families with children. Some became sharecroppers, others just stayed on as paid employees.

Not every slaveowner was Simon Legree - though even the nicest was still guilty of slavery.

There are thousands of blacks still living in that area that bear my family name because it was the only last name they ever knew.

Most of the blacks here in North Florida have antebellum roots as well. They were already part of the community, albeit as slaves, and since their situation was much improved after the War, just decided staying was a better risk that moving to Detroit in 1866.

FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
In fact, I could offer a critical history of low-income housing. Large "projects" that served to ghettoize the poor were largely unsuccessful in resolving issues of poverty (if that was the intent) because they tended to remove those who were poor from such resources as might otherwise be available from the near-poor and middle class. This was one piece of reasoning behind the move to section 8 vouchers, which intended to better integrate the poor into overall society (the other reason was that it enabled private realtors to receive government subsidized rents). One problem has been that section 8 housing has tended, rather than becoming a scattered site reality, to simply re-create the public housing projects in the private sector--and to be viewed as a "problem" and a precursor of neighborhood decline.
School deseg has a good many more variables to it. It is clear that except for a few areas, it did not succeed in ending de facto segregation. In many areas, schools remain as highly segregated, if not more so, as before the court orders. But the segregation was an underlying cause for unequal education--and this remains a problem, in fact as measured by achievement gaps there was a time of improvement in the early 1970s followed by widening gaps.
Now then, please define a problem and a solution that you are willing to wrestle with. You have introduced crime (both victims and criminals), housing/poverty and education. I am not hearing from you any willingness to recommend or get behind any solutions--and your ruminations tend to lead quickly to a sense of global hopelessness.


The goal isn't more government programs but in Black Male heroes like the recent Charles Ramsey of Cleveland.

Charles Ramsey Cleveland Hero
http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/c...

Mr. Ramsey despite his prior convictions for domestic violence shows that good does exist in the ghetto as he is a hard working realist, is employed and has overcome his criminal past and is now a global role model for Black Males, independent, hard working, quick of tongue and wit, self sacrificing to help others. He is the face of Cleveland and a symbol of hope in the Black Community.

We need less of Trayvon Martin / victim culture.

We need more of Charles Ramsey (hero), Hermann Cain, Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, J.C. Watts, Ken Blackwell and other positive Black Male role models.

Strel wrote:
<quoted text>
My family owned a sizeable chunk of land near Spartanburg, SC and in Augusta, GA prior to the Civil War, and we still have the plantation records from that time. They owned dozens of slaves.
It looks like about half elected to stay either in the area after the War, mostly the older ones and families with children. Some became sharecroppers, others just stayed on as paid employees.
Not every slaveowner was Simon Legree - though even the nicest was still guilty of slavery.
There are thousands of blacks still living in that area that bear my family name because it was the only last name they ever knew.
Most of the blacks here in North Florida have antebellum roots as well. They were already part of the community, albeit as slaves, and since their situation was much improved after the War, just decided staying was a better risk that moving to Detroit in 1866.


Yes, exactly. As I understand it, Harriet Beecher Stowe, master propagandist, never set foot in the South. On this one point, Abraham Lincoln may have been correct, when he asked upon meeting her:

"Is this the little woman who made this big war?"

And the obvious question most Americans never think to ask is...why did all those young, struggling farmers, millworkers and other laborers voluntarily risk their lives for the Confederacy?

For the right to keep their slaves?

/s

Strel wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not entirely comfortable considering it a "separate culture", and I don't think we should be promoting separatism at all - but that community often self-segregrates to some extent, unfortunately. Lingering racism does little to help.
Not so lingering, I guess, reading the posts by some on this board.
I'm smack in the middle of the Deep South, in a community near 40% black, and I see less racism in my town (and it's Topix board) than I do in the boards from communities in Ohio, Arkansas, Kentucky...
Maybe my part of the South is just done with it.


Racism has always played out differently in the North and the South. In the North there is a much higher level of denial and the means are far more subtle.

But with regard to "self-segregation" that tends to cross all kinds of divides. I think that the biggest error in the desegregation of schools was that most adults didn't realize that it was going to take more than just mixing bodies. There needed to be some conscious effort and leadership to develop joint activites that would draw people together and forge new cultural institutions.

In Columbus a deeply divided Board merely announced to the community that it would follow the law. Minimal compliance.

Oliver Canterberry wrote:
<quoted text>
The goal isn't more government programs but in Black Male heroes like the recent Charles Ramsey of Cleveland.
Charles Ramsey Cleveland Hero
http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/c...
Mr. Ramsey despite his prior convictions for domestic violence shows that good does exist in the ghetto as he is a hard working realist, is employed and has overcome his criminal past and is now a global role model for Black Males, independent, hard working, quick of tongue and wit, self sacrificing to help others. He is the face of Cleveland and a symbol of hope in the Black Community.
We need less of Trayvon Martin / victim culture.
We need more of Charles Ramsey (hero), Hermann Cain, Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, J.C. Watts, Ken Blackwell and other positive Black Male role models.


And how do you (personally or organizationally) propose to foster that?

And are you suggesting that a proliferation of black male role models will have an impact on poverty?

Oliver Canterberry wrote:
<quoted text>
The goal isn't more government programs but in Black Male heroes like the recent Charles Ramsey of Cleveland.
Charles Ramsey Cleveland Hero
http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/c...
Mr. Ramsey despite his prior convictions for domestic violence shows that good does exist in the ghetto as he is a hard working realist, is employed and has overcome his criminal past and is now a global role model for Black Males, independent, hard working, quick of tongue and wit, self sacrificing to help others. He is the face of Cleveland and a symbol of hope in the Black Community.
We need less of Trayvon Martin / victim culture.
We need more of Charles Ramsey (hero), Hermann Cain, Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, J.C. Watts, Ken Blackwell and other positive Black Male role models.


And by the way, I feel a need to point out that Trayvon Martin is in fact dead, the victim of a bullet if nothing else. Although as so many are quick to point out, guns don't kill people, people kill people. And Trayvon did not kill himself.
Find the lowest prices with Find&Save!
Posts 321 to 340 of 386

Add your Comments

You'll need JavaScript enabled to post comments

By clicking on "Post Comment" you acknowledge that you have read our Terms of Service. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator.

Politix Quiz: How much do you know about gun laws?